chasm

Ah, spoken like a true HALO professional! Just reading this makes me want to go Top Shelf on all of my opponents of the past evenings. Everyone tries so hard to prove their personal strengths, when in reality it is the sum of the whole that is bigger than its parts. Thats why it is good to keep mixing up teams, keeps people from getting too personally involved. I look forward to seeing how the "changes" affect game play. I think that one can play cheap no matter what the game settings, and that wont stop. I also think that irritated losers will always cry excuses when they leave with a red rear end for the night! Me, I enjoy a little clever word exchange with my opponents in the heat of the moment. The Big Daddy, Top Shelf, Large Father, wouldnt have it any other way. So for those of you that dont like it, TUFF SHIT! HA! The Large Father reminds you no one's hopper is spared from his Top Shelf capabilities. EAT ME! LATER!

I was just going to say that I looked forward to everyone who plays posting on here agreeing with you and denouncing all the other players for being the root of the problem, and saying how much they look forward to the new challenges. Thanks to Jon for backing me up there.

Just goes to show you: The honor system doesn't work when the people have no honor.

Hey, thanks for the kind words! Perhaps youd like to invite me up to go Top Shelf in that new apartment of yours! the Big Daddy would be happy to oblige :-)

I do not understand why Jon agrees, because he is the cheapest player in the game. I myself am removing myself from the situation by not playing HALO anymore. Yes, the game is fun but the competitor in me gets the best of me. I hate to lose and especially when you lose cheaply. As for the babies who have to CAMP and be CHEAP to win SOMETIMES; grow a set!!!! The last couple of nights I have quit often, the reason for that is that I am mad at myself for not being able to control my anger. I thought it would be best to stop playing and that is what am doing.

I rarely spar with my competitors, but as one of the four original HALO pioneers (including Tom, Gar, Jay, and me), I feel as though I have the right to say a few things.

Over 2 1/2 years I have learned the following:
1) Teams of four do not accurately showcase an individual player's skills
2) Regardless of what people say, most players DO care if they when or lose
3) Some players are not good sports (i.e. shit-talking, quitting, barking at teammates, etc.)
4) There are NO cheap strategies, only naive players who do not adapt to the game.

If you haven't noticed, all of these revolve around the PLAYER, not the game.

Everyone should do the following:
1. Avoid arguments with teammates & opponents
2. Share in the responsibilities of the team
3. Encourage/support less talented players
4. Respect the other team's effort
5. Accept the results of the match

Until the PLAYERS become better sports, changing the game will only cause the arguments to change. To change and to change for the better are two entirely separate things. Still, I am optimistic, Lets stop the hate!

PS. I am sorry to hear of Mike's retirement.

Mike, you're retiring? Well, that sucks. You're going to come back for the sequel later this year though, right?

yeah, cmon Mike, you cant retire! You just gotta switch it up a little, and we should change up the teams more. Plus, if you are gonna retire, at least let me play in the last session of matches you are in...... so I can Big Daddy you out, and then take a Top Shelf! You gotta go out in style.

I'm gonna have to disagree with Robb on the "there are NO cheap strategies" comment. I think we can ALL agree that some strategies are inherrently cheap but I hate the game for allowing it and not necessarily the player for exploiting it.

I specifically did not make an itemized list of behavioral recommendations because I don't think any of my friends are dumb enough to NOT already know what they SHOULD and SHOULDN'T do. Maybe Robb's list will remind them.

Otherwise, I'll support Robb's preachy post as an addendum to my own.

"I specifically did not make an itemized list of behavioral recommendations because I don't think any of my friends are dumb enough to NOT already know what they SHOULD and SHOULDN'T do."

Ah-- I see that you have grossly overestimated the intelligence of our friends.

Let me explain my earlier comment about there being "no cheap strategies." One man's "cheap" is another man's "expensive." For example, one could argue that hiding behind a teleporter, camping with the sniper, and hiding in a tank are all equally cheap. Since we cannot determine what is the cheapest strategy, it is best not to dwell on it, and just adapt your game. (i.e. Don't use the teleporter if you expect to get murdered...)

As Tom said-- the game is as fault, not the player.

http://forums.bungie.org/halo/archive13.pl?read=395648

Some interesting ideas on "cheapness in HALO." These comments definitely relate to our recent arguments over the tactics used in a team scenario...

No comment at the moment...too tired...will post later

I would like to voice my agreement to Robb's cheap-supervenience theory. In the truest sense of "cheapness" or what may otherwise be known as "cheating"; the perpetrator would need to exercise some advantage that was not available to the other players.
In general, Halo does not afford advantages of this type to players. One may argue that the placement of players at the start of the game may constitute such an advantage; but I believe that our varied membership of teams mitigates this to a mere percevied advantage.
I cannot think of any other pure sources of "cheapness" in Halo. Note that strategies by definition may not be considered "cheap", since any and all strategies must be executing within the rules of the game; and as such, may be done so by any team or player. For example: The West Coast offense is not "cheap" or "cheating", it's, in fact, perfectly legal.
I would also like to defend my attitude while playing Halo, as I've always tried to adhere to the practices outlined in Robb's disseration above. :-)

"Note that strategies by definition may not be considered "cheap", since any and all strategies must be executed within the rules of the game" ... unnecessary and unfounded generalizations, babbling.

Where does it say that "any and all strategies, by definition, must be executed within the rules"?

When did "cheap" and "cheat" become synonyms?

Since we're definining things, here is "cheap" by way of Webster: gained with little effort.

The West Coast Offense might not be "cheap" but how about falling over to give someone the NFL's sack record? How about shooting at your own basketball hoop and missing so you can get the last rebound in a triple-double? Let's make sure we understand the sublte distinctions between "cheap" and "cheat".

Cheating happens when one gains advantages over another player by operating outside of the rules. You can only be cheap by operating within the rules.

I'm just saying that it may be unreasonable to decry a particular strategy as "unfair", or "cheap", or whatever you want to call it unless the latter is the strategy: "cheating". And, as far as I can tell, Halo does not allow that type of strategy.
You went right around the point of the argument and attacked my attempt at sounding intellectual; bad form!

Filthy D,
I went to the post about cheapness and of course it backed your CHEAPNESS. Try reading some of the other posts and they all knock CHEAPNESS. I find it hilarious that the only people condoning the PUSSY way to play are all from the same flesh and blood. YOU ARE ALL CHEAP AND YES ROBB YOU ALSO WHEN PLAYING WITH YOUR BROTHERS. It is funny when we play basketball none of you are cheap HMMM I wonder why. Wait, I know there is no way for you to be cheap!!!! Also, when we play PGR2, what is SHITHEAD'S strategy oops, I mean topshelf's strategy? To ram people right off the start. I have an idea instead of looking for the cheapest way to win practice and try to win like a man!!!! That is what we are talking about here what is fair and what is not. Yes I agree there is nothing stopping you from being CHEAP except your own pride, which I see you have none. If it was not for the red team running around looking for the blue team we would never finish a game. We would all be in a corner and no one would have any kills. I officially came out of retirement last night because I can not wait to defeat the cheapest group of people ever.

In response to Mike (a.k.a. quitter):
Ya know, I've had just about enough of your propogandist banter. Sounds to me like all you can do is blame other people for your poorness at HALO...Maybe you should PRACTICE and get better. It might, just might, make your case seem more plausible. Perhaps you would like to play myself or either of my brothers one-on-one in HALO................didn't think so...... because you have a fear of losing, especially losing badly. I guarantee victory, and I won't even need grenades or vehicles or anything.
You say I play like a pussy... Well, never forget....you are also a pussy when it comes to HALO. All you do is snipe (camping in yes, all levels...I can name all the spots) and get in a tank, or ride the coattails of other teammates. I've never claimed to be great at the game, or even good, but I am definitely not as cheap as you may think. I don't have the greatest of abilities at HALO, but when I do get an occasional kill, it's because I usually outsmarted someone else. (i.e. if I run through a teleporter and you're dumb enough to follow me, and I punch you to death, that's tough on you) I normally don't say things like this, I like to be low-key if possible...but you seem to have an issue with me and my bros, so if you do, let's see how much skill you really have at HALO! OH, one more thing on the subject of HALO....you know that post that you read?!?! Well, I'll have you know that just about everyone we play with agrees with it!! Which means they agree with me!! I won't even offer a rebuttal to your basketball argument...but you're right, I don't need to be cheap at basketball...my shooting does all the speaking for me. Soooo....in conclusion, if you like to pursue arguments with me, I am more than happy to fire right back with plenty more counterarguments. Thank you and good night...no hard feelings of course, it's nothing personal... it's all business.

I accept your challenge from you or Jon, I know Rob is better than me. As for the rest BLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAHBLAH!!!!!!! In the words of the great GNY. SRGT. HARTMAN "Only steers and queers come from Union St. and you don't look like a steer to me"

Your quotes are about as moronic as your own little speeches. Maybe you might wanna quote someone that people actually KNOW or that aren't flaming fags. But what more would I expect...perhaps you are as queer as your ass-pirate sergeant friend. Oops...made a mistake...get rid of the "perhaps."

I can see my posts have hit a nerve with a certain player. They were not ment to upset anyone, I was just joking around. I do agree that you can play any way you want as long as the game allows it. The "cheap" strategy is a strategy that is allowed, but me being ADHD can not sit still long enough to use that strategy. I will not criticize anyone anymore no matter how you play the game. In return, I expect the same from those who criticize my play. Languorous excluded your house your rules. As for the quote, I am really disappointed that no one knows who GNY. SRGT. HARTMAN is, he is the drill srgt. from Full Metal Jacket and the History Channel show called Mail Call. His exact quote was "There are only steers and queers from TEXAS and you don;t look like a steer to me" Again ONLY JOKE not ment to offend besides I DO HAVE A GIRLFRIEND!!!! Oops sorry there I go again. I better go before I offend anyone again.

It's all cool Mike. You're still the man, I was just playing along. Haha, besides, HALO's meant to be fun.

Remember when we used to play Half-Life back in the day? Yeah, that was the shit... oh, did I interrupt your chest-beating? Stick with me, there's a point to this.

Back when we played HL (sorry Mike, this was before your time), I used to rip shit up. Gar put the hurting on me a bunch, and Tom was fucking evil with that crossbow. But I was GOOD at that game.

When we started playing Halo, I was pretty damn good once I got the hang of it. As you all might have noticed, I can't really keep up anymore when I'm back in town anymore. Some of that might be due to lack of practice, or inability to keep up with your tactics, or just due to this not being my game. But you don't see me talking trash about cheapness afterwards. Because it don't matter.

The only thing that matters is what happens on the Halo board. That link was right: if your tactics don't work, change em. Halo's been played by millions for months and months now, if there were a definite Winning Strategy, it would have been found. The game is balanced, YOU gotta find the counter.

So in conclusion, shut your fucking cockholsters. And give me a game I can use a mouse with so I can rape you fools as god intended.

Jay,
I only have one thing to say to you YOUR THE MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow... I was told I had to get on and read this. Now I see why. As for the HALO conversation which managed to progress through the evil trash talk, I think you can all rest at ease knowing you are not the worst HALO player. I take full pride in being the worst, and you know what the game is still fun... until the trash talk starts and players start yelling... so calm down manly men you are still better than the girls.